inGame footage of various games. In the future I hope to add reviews. ^_^
Published on June 9, 2009 By aroddoold In War of Magic

 

I started noticing Elemental after I heard that Stardock was looking into developing a sequel to one of my most favorite game - Master of Magic. Apparently they didn't get the rights to the name and so chose to make their own thing.

I keep hearing that it's very similar to MoM, although nothing of what I have seen so far in the journals or the website seems to affirm that statement.

Ok, Elemantal has magic and you're able to master it. But apart from that ?

Maybe someone can help me understand how Elemental is really MoM 2. To make that easy I'll post some of the features that made MoM so interesting.

 

1. The Archmage

At the beginning you create (or select) your alter ego, a powerful archmage. You do this by spending a certain amount of "picks" which you can use to "buy" certain things:

* Spellbooks - Every spellbook you take raises the starting selection of spells you can pick. The more spellbooks of one color you have, the more spells you can take and the more powerful spells (common,uncommon, rare) you can pick. If you choose to spend all picks on spellbooks of one color, you even start with one rare spell, which can be very strong even though your magic infrastructure won't easily support it (i.e. costs much mana).

* Traits - Instead of spellbooks you can choose to pick abilities that noticably influence nearly all game mechanics. Warlords start with experienced troops and can promote them one level higher than all other archmages, while channelers pay less mana upkeep for persistent enchantments and have an easier time casting spells away from their home capital. Artificers have a much easier time producing artifacts (very powerful feature) and can freely transform gold to mana and back again, while Myrrans even start in a different dimension, allowing you to choose a starting race not available to others.

* Race - You get to choose your starting race, each of which is notably different. Among those races are Humans, Elves, Lizardmen, Klackons, Halfings (all fear the almighty adamantium slingers), Nomads and others. Myrran archmages also get to choose from Dwarves, Dragonians (who indeed fly and breathe fire), Trolls (regenerate in combat and resurrect from the dead for free), Beastmen, Dark Elves (provide a large mana boost per round and every single troop has a magic range attack) and probably some race I have forgotten.

 

The possible combinations are mind staggering and are more diverse than in any game I have encountered ever. Some examples:

* Pick Alchemist and Warlord and all troops start more experienced and are equipped with magic weapons - which normally requires a very expensive building.

* Pick Artificer and Charismatic and produce cheap artifacts for your heroes or sell them immediatly for profit. use that gold either for development or transform it into mana, to create more powerful artifacts.

* Pick only spellbooks of one color and choose High Elves as starting race. You can start with an epic spell and can even afford it due to the elves' mana bonus.

 

2. The empire

You can either build settlers and found new cities wherever you like, or you can simply take neutral towns or those of other archmages. You do both, usually. Inside a city you can either produce troops or buildings, while the more powerful troops require the more expensive buildings. It's really quite like civilization ... you even have to produce food to make your people increase in numbers faster. And the terrain influences how strong your productivity or food production is. Buildings also have additional effects, like extra food through the farmers market or increased research through libraries. There is no tech tree or any kind of research in respect to buildings/units.

Some buildings or units can't be build - they have to be created by magic, like the summoning circle, which in turn determines where your summoned units appear.

3. Troops

Each troop is made up of individual units. Even though the names may be the same, their stats and composition are different, depending on race. Troll swordsmen are immensly strong, but only have 4 individual swordsman in a unit, while the wimpy halflings squeeze 8 or 10 fighters in a single swordsmen unit. If one troll dies, the unit only has 3/4 of it's starting strength. Nevertheless, trolls usually win against halflings.

Some special troops are Heroes, which are single unit troops and are very strong on their own. They grow even stronger the more experience they gain (which is true for every unit, but more so for heroes). Heroes also can equip items - found, bought or made - which can increase their performance drastically. Some units even have the ability to cast spells. Which spells depends on the heroe AND the spell selection of the controlling archmage, because you kindly share your knowledge with arcane heroes.

The regular troops only increase in strength through experience or magic buffs. No equipment for them. However, cities in possession of an alchemists guild and/or located next to rare metals like mithril or adamantium (only found in the Myrror dimension) can produce troops with better combat values (no extra cost).

4. Magic

Spells are seperated into different domains - death, life, nature, chaos and sorcery. Or, if you know Magic The Gathering: Black, White, Green, Red, Blue.

You get your starting spells through the initial spellbook picks ... the rest you have to research. And research costs ... magic. Like gold, you get a steady income of mana, which you can either invest in research or store in your mana pool. And you can research ANY spell in time, provided you have at least one spellbook of that domain.

You, the archmage, can cast spells. You can summon troops in your summoning circle, you can fireball a troop on the overland map, weakening them enough to kill them with your nearby armies. You can increase food output or productivity of a city or cripple that of your enemies. You can change the lay of the land, turn deserts into grassland or silver deposits into mithril.

But the farther away you aim your spell, the more mana you have to pay ... unless you are a channeler, of course.

But even better, when tactical combat starts, you are not limited to moving troops ... some spells only work in combat mode, some on the overland map ... and some in both modes, like the fireball. And casting spells is expensive, so you have to hold some mana in reserve to influence a battle with your powers. Arcane heroes on the other hand have their own mana pool ... and if they have access to the same spell domain as you, then they can cast those spells even if it is not in their spellbook usually. And again, channelers have an easier time casting spells far away from home.


That should be enough for an overview.

As you should see, the possible playing styles are legion. You can aim for certain spells in combination with certain troops only produced by a certain race. Or combine traits for increased effect. Specialize in one ranch of magic or diversify. Some races benefit from certain picks ... and rush strategies only work with a certain combination of spells and race.

 

And so the question is: What does Elemental have in common with all of the above ?

 


Comments (Page 3)
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on Jun 10, 2009

KellenDunk
I don't understand what you're complaining about, form what I see having installed dosbox and MoM after being excited for this game, There are a lot of similarities from what we know for sure.

 

Also this game has your whole list.

The archmage=the channeler CHECK

Empire building? CHECK

Troops? CHECK

MAgic? CHECK

 

 No this isn't gong to be MoM2, but who cares.  I think this is going to be better than any sequel would have anyway.  ou aren't constrained to the "spellbooks" system or using the myrror dimension.

//Side Note Start//

By the way, since I just started I'm only playin MoM on intro difficulty and I picked Merlin so half nature half life with the faster researching ability.

it seems to me that the myrran ability *assuming the other wizards don't have it* is likely a HUGE bonus.  Not just getting to choose one of the Myrran races, but getting a whole dimesnion practically to yourself for a while to build up your Empire and Magical abilities.

//Side Note End ///

 

Yes in later patches, they increased the Myrran ability to cost 3 points, and it was still a bargain. Myrran, alchemist, and a couple of Noble heroes that would donate gold/turn to your cause = game over.

on Jun 10, 2009

Eljay451
Elemental is supposed to be extremely mod-able.  So for the MoM aficionados out there, we could MoM-mod it!

That depends on how much modding will be available?    For example...  will we be able to add additional realms... aka Myrror realm??  Also according to the developers other races would cause problems with existing armor matching the body form...  I hope modding tools exist so creating other races won't be as big of a problem as mentioned by the developers. 

This is my first Stardock game, I'm hoping to be impressed.  

on Jun 10, 2009

Well, making a race that doesn't use armor would be one way around that.

on Jun 10, 2009

It seems to me that their intent is to build a bunch of tools to make the game and use the same tools we will have.  I don't see why you wouldn't be able to create alternate artwork for the armor for your custom races...Of course I don't work at stardock and am not involved in any way, but in other games that allow modification.  Oblivion is an example., plenty of people made alternate body types, and had to mod armors to be able to fit those new bodies.

on Jun 11, 2009

KellenDunk
I don't understand what you're complaining about, form what I see having installed dosbox and MoM after being excited for this game, There are a lot of similarities from what we know for sure.

 

Also this game has your whole list.

The archmage=the channeler CHECK

Empire building? CHECK

Troops? CHECK

MAgic? CHECK

 

Invalid argument. It's like saying that Command & Conwuer 3 and StarCraft 2 are the same because they have "lot of similarities".

 

  • Different units ?  CHECK
  • Techlvls ?  CHECK
  • Different armor & weaponclasses ?  CHECK
  • Active abilites ?  CHECK
  • Fastpaced ?  CHECK

C&C 3 and StarCraft 2 are the same TYPE of games and have many similarities but that doesn't mean at all that somebody will like both.

on Jun 11, 2009

One thing I really miss from MoM that I haven't found in similar games (Dominions and.. another I cannot remember) is custom artifacts.

 

Yeah, the custom arifacts could really unbalance the game by turning hereos into 'super' heroes.  But it was still fun to pour all of the 'magic' income into making some really powerful artifact and then watching the equiped hero fly across the world, clearing out cities and magic nodes with little effort.

 

Now one thing I have seen here that I haven't seen eslewhere is the idea of manufacturing equipment for your normal troops.  The closest single player game I can think of that does that is hinterlands, and I liked how that worked (although the randomness of it all, not so much).

on Jun 11, 2009

I agree with a lot of other people here that MoM is one of my all time favorite strategy games. I think for its time it had a lot of great things going for it you hadn't seen in similar games.

The biggest thing for me was the fantasy theme. Back then there were not many strategy games that tackled a fantasy setting. I'm not sure if HoMM had been released yet (though I did not like homm). Either way, it basically took the amazing master of orion, smashed it in with great features from civilization, threw in a couple of it's own great ideas, and coated it in a nice fantasy setting.

Tactical battles were one of the great features that really set the title appart. You can build your killer stacks, then actually get to jump right into the battle and put them into action. Further. the way your sorcerer was abstractly represented, that you were physically present in the game on your wizard tower, but not seen, really made you feel like you were this all powerful being controling what was going in the empire. Concepts like being farther out from your tower, and heros being able to tap into your spell book with their own casting really made a varried approach to combat.

You could rely on strict martial power or you could rely on conjured power. One loand slinger unit could be tough to take down when your wizard started conjuring up allies and raining death down on poor units.

A strong factor for me in the fun factor was how easy MoM was.  You could really self limit yourself and shoot for some hard goals and make tough games, or, if you wanted some fun, you could camp yourself on the other plane and just power up. I enjoyed frequently turtling on an island map, teching up with 4 cities or so, making friends, until I got warrax (I just loved his art style) and then I would enchant the heck out of him, and send him out crushing all the AI one by one with the assistance of my magic power. Nothing like eating regular army with one lighting bolt a shot.

But the ability to do stuff like flying galleys (boring but strong!) if you chose to, was NICE. It made the game fun. If i wanted a hard game, I could do that, if I wanted to steamroll ai, I could do that too, without learning a whole lot of mechanics.

And that is what a lot of strat games lack now a days imho. I think that the extra processing power and budget most games have now a days can lead to some really intersting, yet complex strat games. But I've found that of all the strat games I've played, the only ones I end up finishing were MoO and MoM. A game from the total war series, for example, becomes very tedious to play as you get towards the end. Usually I quit after the steamroller portion, ie, nothing can stop you as long as you are careful. After that, it becomes very tedious micromanagment to handle a large empire.

Another strong thing going for MoM was the troop abstraction. It seems silly, that although I enjoyed Age of Wonders (really great game), it didn't do it for me like MoM. I think it was simply down to the fact that each unit was one troop, while in MoM when you made a stack of spearmen it was 6 units. In this way you got the feeling of moving armies, where as in AoW it felt like small scale tactical battles. A subtle difference but is is suprising how it affects my views on the game.

Another important thing was that tactical battles were quickly resolved. You can still jump in, and fight a bunch per turn without taking hours on end. On the other extreme take a total war game tac battle. If you have to fight 10 battles that turn, it is almost one whole game play session to get them done correctly (ie not relying on autoresolve).

From all i've read of the journals, and what I've seen of gal civ (strongly agree that elemental seems it will be MoM-->Elemental as MoO ---> gal civ ), I really think stardock will take elemental in a great direction. I think frogboy enjoys 4x games more then most of us ever would and his brain will take us in the direction of a great 4x fantasy themed game.

I also kind of picture it as borrowing heavily from elements of galciv 2. For example take the unit creation idea, it will probably be amazingly similar to galciv 2's create a ship (which would be great). I am totally looking forward to geeking out the empire I want steamrolling across the lands.

It actually seems to me that the more they plan and create with elemental, the more they seem to be approaching the idea of this 'generic 4x fantasy engine' allowing players to really dive in and customize. Sort of like the NWN of 4x games, and when you think about it, the 4x genera is just ripe for customization, yet it is pretty hard to find any kind of 4x game that is relativly easy to work with. Heck, they just don't really make that many 4x games now a days as is.

Anyway, as a long time MoM fan, really looking forward to elemental and will be jumpping in on the alpha/beta as soon as its generally available to get and start providing feedback.

on Jun 11, 2009

My memory seems to tell me that heroes could only launch their default 'magic bolt/lightning' attacks as long as they had mana.  If they had cast other spells and were at 0 mana, their ranged attacks would be unavailable.

 

Anybody remember that more clearly?

on Jun 11, 2009

No this isn't gong to be MoM2, but who cares. I think this is going to be better than any sequel would have anyway. ou aren't constrained to the "spellbooks" system or using the myrror dimension.

That's not a constraint - that's a tactical choice.

 

//Side Note Start//

By the way, since I just started I'm only playin MoM on intro difficulty and I picked Merlin so half nature half life with the faster researching ability.

it seems to me that the myrran ability *assuming the other wizards don't have it* is likely a HUGE bonus. Not just getting to choose one of the Myrran races, but getting a whole dimesnion practically to yourself for a while to build up your Empire and Magical abilities.

//Side Note End ///

Wheeee, you started that game in these times ? Respect man, I wouldn't expect anyone to bear those dated graphics and GUI nowadays...

And be assured that the dimension won't stay yours for long ... you'll usually have at least one other wizard as neighbour. And the three picks for Myrran are quite costly.

on Jun 11, 2009

The latest version that I played (many years ago) Myrran was still a bargain at 3 picks.

on Jun 11, 2009

Paradoxnt
My memory seems to tell me that heroes could only launch their default 'magic bolt/lightning' attacks as long as they had mana.  If they had cast other spells and were at 0 mana, their ranged attacks would be unavailable.

 

Anybody remember that more clearly?

Absolutely correct. Arcane heroes use their mana pool both for spells and ranged attacks. Another tactical choice, although that choice is easy if you have weak ranged power like Serena the Healer.

Tactical battles were one of the great features that really set the title appart. You can build your killer stacks, then actually get to jump right into the battle and put them into action. Further. the way your sorcerer was abstractly represented, that you were physically present in the game on your wizard tower, but not seen, really made you feel like you were this all powerful being controling what was going in the empire. Concepts like being farther out from your tower, and heros being able to tap into your spell book with their own casting really made a varried approach to combat.

Yeah, stuff like that made the game feel more ... let's settle for realistic, while making you feel all powerful at the same time. More like an archmage and less like a magic dork in a tower (which summs up my apreceation for AoW).

You could rely on strict martial power or you could rely on conjured power. One loand slinger unit could be tough to take down when your wizard started conjuring up allies and raining death down on poor units.

All Fear The Mighty Adamantium Slingers Of The Halfling Empire!

Those midgets could take down dragons when promoted to champion level.

Another strong thing going for MoM was the troop abstraction. It seems silly, that although I enjoyed Age of Wonders (really great game), it didn't do it for me like MoM. I think it was simply down to the fact that each unit was one troop, while in MoM when you made a stack of spearmen it was 6 units. In this way you got the feeling of moving armies, where as in AoW it felt like small scale tactical battles. A subtle difference but is is suprising how it affects my views on the game.

Yeah, the difference between single units (like dragon turtles) and a squad of elven longbowmen was good both for the feeling and the combat mechanics, as well as the effect of certain buffs.

Let's say you pit a Dragon Turtle against a Halberdier squad consisting of 6 individual halberdiers. In a fight all 6 halberdiers attack the lone turtle with the listed unit strength, while the much stronger turtle gets one attack against the squad. Both probably survive the first attack, but the squad has lost half their men, halving their combat power. Meanwhile the turtle is as strong as before even with half it's hitpoints gone. Win for the Dragon turtle.

Now let's cast a buff that grants two more hitpoints to a unit. The turtle barely notices it, but the squad doubles or even triples their total health, depending on the race! Win for the squad.

Ah, all those details ....

From all i've read of the journals, and what I've seen of gal civ (strongly agree that elemental seems it will be MoM-->Elemental as MoO ---> gal civ ), I really think stardock will take elemental in a great direction. I think frogboy enjoys 4x games more then most of us ever would and his brain will take us in the direction of a great 4x fantasy themed game.

Let's hope for the best. I think I read before that stardock had no idea what Master of Magic was until someone mentioned that to them in the forum or maybe the chat. If that's true then frogboy ain't a true MoM fanatic and won't feel the need to recreate the Master of Magic experience. It's going to be their own thing. I'll wait and see, but I'm not going to buy it on trust alone.

I nearly bought MoO3 on trust but couldn't find a store that sold it ... then I got my hand on it somewhere else (still with Deutschmarks in my hands) and boy, I came close to puking .... I think I voiced myself quite uncomplimentary on their forums.

on Jun 11, 2009

Campaigner
Quoting KellenDunk, reply 5I don't understand what you're complaining about, form what I see having installed dosbox and MoM after being excited for this game, There are a lot of similarities from what we know for sure.

 

Also this game has your whole list.

The archmage=the channeler CHECK

Empire building? CHECK

Troops? CHECK

MAgic? CHECK


 

Invalid argument. It's like saying that Command & Conwuer 3 and StarCraft 2 are the same because they have "lot of similarities".

 


Different units ?  CHECK
Techlvls ?  CHECK
Different armor & weaponclasses ?  CHECK
Active abilites ?  CHECK
Fastpaced ?  CHECK

C&C 3 and StarCraft 2 are the same TYPE of games and have many similarities but that doesn't mean at all that somebody will like both.

 

Good observation, I was being kind of facetious. It's allright I don't have some sarcastic avatar to let you know my attitude.

on Jun 11, 2009

I read that if you pre order elemental you can get a playable beta version any truth to that?

on Jun 11, 2009

nrkitchen
I read that if you pre order elemental you can get a playable beta version any truth to that?
Yes. All pre-orders are eligable to participate in the open beta.

Note that the first stage of beta ("Alpha 0") is going to be reserved to a rather small audience. But yes, Stardock is known for long public betas with lots of player input.

on Jun 11, 2009

nrkitchen
I read that if you pre order elemental you can get a playable beta version any truth to that?

People who pre-order will be able to download the public betas. The public beta process will begin well before the game is in a street-ready state. It's an effort to get volunteer informal testers, not a form of pre-release demo.

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