Looks are a bonus IMO. I want a game that plays well, if it looks good thats fine, but I really don't give a shit what it looks like. What WC3 does have going for it like all Blizzard games is you can play it on anything. You can get our your Atari and it'll run. That opens the playerbase to levels other games can't even dream about. Thats one of the chief reasons WoW has the playerbase it does. You can play it on any pile of shit computer you may have.

100 heroes is one of the reasons people love DotA so much. But its one of its biggest draw backs too. thats 100 heroes to learn, each with 4 skills thats 400 skills before you even start looking at items. The shitty part of that is everyone will always have those same 4 skills on that hero, no matter what. I think DGs heroes are superior in that you can play them different ways because you cant have it all. In DotA a hero has the same potential in every game he shows up, items are what build them differently. In DG they've got the potential to be different from the get go and items only add to that.

What makes DotAs items better imo is that you have to build them (which is a huge draw back to new players) but to build X item you need different components and those components give you a slight advantage mid game till you finish the item. In DG you just buy whatever and shitcan it once you want to get an artifact. You hardly ever sell an item in DotA unless you fuck up and buy something you didn't mean to. Otherwise late in the game you might finally sell that wraith band you've been holding onto to make room for something else but only after all your other slots have been filled with big items.

And if you don't think those 100 heroes play differently from eachother you've got a shitty source on your info. They all play differently. If you try to play Chen like PA you're on some harsh drugs and in for quite the ass kicking.

100 heroes in DotA is terrible. its not good game design. its just a fetish for new heroes that drives it, it adds nothing to the play experience. the simple fact is that only a handful of those heroes are good enough to play competitively anyway. 

i far prefer demigod's take which is to have fewer heroes but greater depth for each hero. 

...Lol, Why focus on the hero aspect. 100 Heros with some kind of ranged attack, a debuff some passive stuff etc.  Its a basic formula with some fancy names and some fancy WCIII effects

DoTa has had the same Map and layout for years. . . Thats probably the most boring part of it.

Demigod is a fresh professionally developed game by 2 vasty talented groups.  Im not short chaning the Dota / AOS creator...but there is no comparision, Demigod is vastly superior in many ways.  The gameplay may be the same but to be able to talk about depth when, as I said, the map has been the same...and you build items?  Lol Who cares.  It's time to move into the next decade and stop fapping over something that's been phased out ages ago.

I really don't get this "greater depth" for each hero spiel that you guys love to sprout. Demigod is currently constrained by limited item selection and skill trees.

DotA is successful because of several factors:

Low requirements to entry (hardware, bandwidth, connectivity, monetary).

Extensive community involvement (VCK, meaningful ladders)

Focused gameplay with variety.

Well supported platform (WC3 TFT, responsive controls, clear graphics)

The main problems Stardock needs to address in Demigod are in my opinion:

User interface:

Sure the GUI is pretty and shiny but most of it has no use. A box with the basic stats, skills, and items would easily replace the GUI as it is now while providing more utility. If you want to attract advanced players, provide an interface that lets us accurately judge the situation instead of making encounters guessing games. In addition to more comprehensive allied and enemy hero stats, the creeps are presented abysmally. SupCom had this flaw too: We had the ultimate strategy game, but no one could tell their unit's stats at a glance and I believe that turned a few people away from the game. Give us creep stats, please.

Player communication is a serious issue too. We have no way to signal (please don't make it the lame-ass one that they threw into SupCom: it was tied to the sim thread and thus too slow responding) like players could in DotA. The rotating camera is a problem too since maps are symmetrical and saying "left" or "right" quickly becomes meaningless. Add a compass overlay or something similar.

Presentation aside, the GUI just doesn't feel responsive. WC3 had simpler graphics but I really think that was a strength; with all the bloom and ecetera cluttering the screen, cursors can become lost in a sea of brown and greys. Ignoring that issue, I feel that commands are not accompanied by strong enough acknowledgements. Give us stronger auditory response to user commands.

One last question: WHAT HAPPENED TO THE SHIFT KEY? I want my command queues back.

Overall, Demigod's interface has nearly every weakness of the SupCom interface minus the benefit of strategic icons. SupCom was never designed for quick action and it shows: units bumped around awkwardly, commands were sluggish, and voice response was nonexistent. Simply put, the WC3 engine allows DotA to have a better presentation that gave new players useful information and experienced players greater control.

Networking: I know this is beating a dead horse but...

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&ct=res&cd=5&url=http%3A%2F%2Fzoo.cs.yale.edu%2Fclasses%2Fcs538%2Freadings%2Fpapers%2Fterrano_1500arch.pdf&ei=7dwYSqK2L6KUMq6rnZoP&usg=AFQjCNEVNTUK3LoS9-K31ecXyBCpU8Ql-A&sig2=heMQU7dPfuLWAezTFXybqQ

Ensemble Studios guys did something right with their p2p model. I could play massive 8 player games on a 56k connection back when MSN Zone still hosted Age of Empires 2. They did something right; let's find out what.

Heroes and items:

Ok, here we go. Goddamn does every single hero have to move around like they've recently come out of a coma? It seems like Hero speeds were designed for the smallest map and then never looked at again. There is something wrong when the best strategies nearly always involve anklet of speed, boots of speed, and wand of speed.

Again, feedback is a weakness. The red, green, and white damage indicators are nice and all, but experience and gold text for creep and hero kills would be nice. Maybe group the creep kill text so only one would be up at a time.

Ok game started, ganna stop writing now.

In regards to gameplay differences:

DotA (at its current refined level of gameplay) requires more precise skill then DG. Denies, last hits, careful watching of the minimap and enemy movements, preparing and avoiding ganks are all either non-existant in DG or much less defined.

However, DG has a more strategic feel to it due to the flag and warscore system. Citadel upgrades and more complex DGs make it so there are more strategic decisions involved in building your DG and choosing what to buy. A standard "build" needs to be much more flexible in DG than in DotA.

I believe that as the players improve, the level of gameplay will improve as well, and become more skill based. With its current interface, I don't think DG will reach the level of play skill needed to compete at DotA, but I do think it will achieve a higher level of balance and retain a greater focus on countering opponents (even though DotA is good at this already).

Dota has a horrible community. Also when I played it I could completely bash out the enemy until he got some item that made him pretty much impossible to kill. So I wouldn't call dota a game where you need skill. You just need to know what items to get and you'll win anyway.

If you think you can win just by getting the right items then you just don't know how to play DotA.

Well, have a ton of Hero's makes random actually meaningful. It also allows for strange variations on teamwork.

Don't get my wrong, DemiGod is an awsome game, but to say DOTA is not worth playing is like saying Mario 1 sucks because Braid is better. It is the difference between a classic and a newer variation.

Again, Demigod reminds me of pre-Frozen Throne DOTA. Few heros, simple items (which is not nessecarily a bad thing).

In the end, they are different games, lets not waste time bashing one or the other. I personally like to see if a game can live up to it's own potential as a game, not if it compares to other games. If a game does what it does right, then it is a good game IMO.

WE HAVE NEVER DISCUSSED THIS BEFORE.

please, please, think more before you post.

DotA and DG are two completely different animals dispite thier similarities.  There is no reason to compare the two aside from both are an AOS, Team based multiplayer game, and fun to play.

ya know they have WC3 rpg's... you want to start comparing those to FFXI, WoW, and everquest?

Well, you'll be hard pressed to find ANY gaming magazine that doesn't compare DotA to DG. So I thought I'm not too far off when asking about the differences.

Even though I stated the obvious fact that Demigod has better graphics than WC3, I get shit for that.

And I'm not even trying to prove that DotA is crap or something, but that that doesn't stop stupid rebukes from coming.

On the other hand I heard some nice arguments where DotA is still superior to DG, what the differences are and, by extension, what DG misses to become even better (not counting MP issues).

Regarding the GUI, I must say it's pretty good for a first try. Minimalistic and unobtrusive, yet most vital info is shown. I'd like to constantly see my healt points in numbers, though.

And regarding more text notifications for every stuff that happens on the battlefield and in Lord Voldemorts bedroom: The DotA messages are way too overwhelming. A killed B - WOW DUDE. C klonked D - AMAZING. Voldemort take a dump...

I don't know if that's normal in DotA but the vids I saw had constant text messages scrolling over the screen.

that bullshit gets karma ?

No wonder chaosnaska racked up 22 points.

at least put a video showing the aspects of why dota is so fun to play..

Well I guess I use my version in estimating who wins the  Demigod vs DOTA debate. To keep my side neutral i will just mention the main points and the reader can just decide which he prefer's.

Graphics (thy must not under estimate the value of pretti graphixs):

one game was recently released with an innovative new artistic design and detailed environment

the other is reused models but runs very well on anything that has been released in the past 10 years

Heroes/Maps:

over 100 heroes (supposidly they play different, but my limited experiance seemed to indicate that while being creatfully named they were all rather the same in gameplay wise) but a single map to rule them all.

8 heroes + skills trees (I say that most heroes has 2/3 viable builds, so i say 16 builds with the 8 heroes), but we have eight maps to diversify the playing field.

Community (start of game "have fun and good luck" five minutes into game "omg, we already gave up first blood. !#$3 this, NOOB L2P. and then DIE in a FIRE" player leaves)

for one game the above conversation is common

for the other game that conversation is just becoming popular